Photo: Matúš Plecho, SOFIAN I Publishing House
Interview with Professor Zheng Changzhong from Fudan University in Shanghai, International Relations
China, as the Empire at the center of an ancient culture, to my knowledge has not and does not wage wars of conquest. How can you characterize the nature of its people? What is most characteristic of China?
This is a very good question, and the Chinese are now asking this question a lot. I think the most distinctive characteristic of the Chinese nation is actually rationality. How do you explain that logically? That is, the Chinese civilization is one of the first civilizations within which human beings entered the civilized stage, and the Chinese nation is the only civilization that has not interrupted the development of its own civilization until now. Such a unique civilization has a very important feature, and that is that human rationality is constantly accumulated instead of being destroyed. The result of this accumulated rationality is that we know what is most important in the development of human society, in the development of communities, and in the development of the world.
Our accumulation includes experience and lessons learned, so in this process we know that whether we are talking about access to ourselves or to other people, people must always be the main priority. The most important thing is that humanity survives. Therefore, in this process, we strive that not only I must survive, but you must survive, and we must all live well. Under such circumstances, we can cooperate and develop together, whether it is business, communication, rational use of resources, or gathering rational content, all this can maximize our lives, so we will not engage in aggressive wars with foreign countries, but focus more on a form of "harmony and cooperation." Don't fight when you can cooperate. This approach has created our most rational accumulation in the long process of civilization. We know we need peace and cooperation externally. Internally, we need to create many methods of governance and many norms. In this case, these accumulations are a symbol of our rationality.
Chinese culture has been greatly influenced by Taoism and Confucian wisdom. What of this has survived to this day, and what impact has it had on the development of society?
I was just talking about the rationality of the Chinese people. In fact, after they reach the accumulation stage, they start to think again and think about how the country should be run, how people should get along, how individuals should live and take care of their physical and mental health. How should man coexist harmoniously with heaven, earth and nature?
Thus, during the Spring and Autumn Period and the Warring States Period, that is, between 200 B.C. and 800 B.C., which is called the Axial Age of Humanity, all of the "hundred schools of thought" pondered this question. One of the main results of these reflections was Confucianism and Taoism. Of course, there are other schools of thought such as Legalism and others. Over time, these hundreds of schools of thought have provided Chinese people with different perspectives on how to understand these issues.
Later, during the Qin Dynasty, the great unified empire, and after the rise of the Han Dynasty, people gradually combined the important ideas of different schools of thought and internalized them into the main content of Chinese culture. Furthermore, at the end of the Han Dynasty, Buddhism was introduced into China. This blending process gave rise to Confucianism, Taoism and Buddhism, the three most important schools in traditional Chinese culture, which are the paradigms on which people base their thinking about how to order their own body and mind, how to build interpersonal relationships in society, how to govern the country, and how to effectively achieve harmony between people and nature.
These elements slowly became the basis of Chinese culture and organically merged together. Despite the existence of different schools and schools of thought, these elements have become ingrained in the hearts of the general public and merged with the inner thoughts of the Chinese people. But as a theoretical doctrine, it has its own differences. So someone prefers this and someone prefers that. But all these schools of thought show the results accumulated by the rationality of the Chinese people over many years, and they all answer the questions about the soul and body. Specifically, then, these are questions such as spirit and body, interpersonal communication, the relationship between society and the earth, the governance of the earth, and all the connections between people and nature. These schools of thought have been internalized into the content of Chinese civilization. What does it mean to say that this person is Chinese at first glance? It means that he has all these aspects combined together. And they are the crystallization of a rationality that has been passed down for 5,000 years. Therefore, one of the most important characteristics of the Chinese, as I just mentioned, is that they are very rational.
And this rationality has become a habit in our lives, so that many of our interactions, many of the things that we do are actually very sophisticated. It's actually the accumulation of rationality so that everybody can do well in every aspect.
In any case, China rejected religious concepts and in the middle of the last century became enthusiastic about the Cultural Revolution and Mao Tse-Tung's Red Book. How would you compare the most significant differences between that period and the present?
In Chinese culture, including Chinese civilization, we are politically and socially a secular state. There is no so-called state religion at the level of national administration. There are also different types of religion in society as a whole, so there is no contradiction between freedom of religion and the secularisation of the state. There is no so-called state religion at the national level and no religion is established as a state religion. This means that we are, as a whole, a secular country. As we have just mentioned, the whole country is run very rationally and in the process of developing rationality we attach great importance to the country being run by wise people. That is, the country is ruled by talented and capable people because they have the ability to think rationally and solve problems and can follow objective laws, in China this is called "following the way of the Tao."
Therefore, when the most talented people are allowed to participate in the governance of the country, when they are selected to govern in all aspects and to run the country, when they promote the process of social development, they are able to use reason and act in accordance with the law, which is a very important characteristic of China.
You mentioned Mao Tse-tung a moment ago, he was an incredible man. Why is that?
Because after the founding of the Communist Party of China (CPC) and under his leadership, the CPC led the Chinese people in the process of transitioning from ancient civilization to modern civilization, removing all kinds of distractions, and we call it the "toppling of the three great mountains." The overthrow of traditional feudalism, imperialism, and bureaucratic capitalism led to the establishment of a people-centered democratic dictatorship. For thousands of years the emperor ruled, but now it is the people who rule. China has become a modern country and has entered modern society, so the people are well off, their lives have changed radically and they have since become the masters of the country.
This not only means that class oppression in the country has been removed, but also that the bullying by foreigners and imperialists has passed. Under such circumstances, people in that generation greatly admired Mao Tse-tung, the leader of our Party and country. Their admiration came from the hearts and basic emotions of ordinary people. Many people cannot understand this now, but people of my father's generation understood it very well at that time. People of my generation still have a strong affection for Chairman Mao. It was in this context, during the Cultural Revolution process, some people (we're talking about Lin Biao and the Gang of Four), during the Cultural Revolution, took advantage of the people's mentality to do whatever they wanted. Therefore, the movement shifted to the fact that although China as a whole is rational, sometimes there is an impulsive side, and then in the process there was a shift towards the cult of the individual.
But why is there a cult of personality in this process? In fact, China at that time was exploring how to modernize society and how to take the path of modernizing China. During this process, we had many unclear guidelines and could not find the corresponding rules. In the process of exploration, sometimes people experience strong emotions. Therefore, during such an impulsive process, during the Cultural Revolution, there was a further intensification of emotions towards the leader.
Later, the Chinese Communist Party realized this problem. In fact, after the death of Mao Zedong, we held the Third Plenary Session of the 11th Central Committee, and then we also reflected on this phenomenon and the question of how to further restore rationality. Our whole political party, including society and the country, has so far been very rational in all aspects of politics. Therefore, we should look at the issue of the cult of personality under specific historical conditions and identify the emotions of the Chinese people towards their leader under the conditions and circumstances at that time. I think that this phenomenon occurs in every country, so in this process the country up to now still maintains reverence and respect for its leaders, which is an integral part of traditional Chinese culture. On the other hand, we can rationally focus on different aspects of power. We are now emphasising not only democratic politics, but also people's democracy in the whole process.
As long as a man has a share, let him contribute his wisdom. From the governance of the most basic neighborhood committees to the governance of the country, every connection allows people with all stakeholders to contribute their wisdom and rationality, and at the same time we have a set of systems and mechanisms that connect them. It's not conflict, it's constant consensus building, and that's what's so remarkable about China. Consensus is created and then achieved.
"Do you think it's okay?" "Everybody thinks it's okay?" Once we reach a consensus, we can stop arguing. So rationality actually promotes the achievement of ever better results in the evolution of modernization. It is also because we have made such great achievements over the past 40 years of reform and opening up to the world. The result is what you see today in Shenzhen. As I told you during the car journey, this situation is actually characteristic of China over the past few years: under the guidance of rationality, everyone is working according to the objective law of development.
What is the Chinese view of the West and its nature, especially in the context of the fact that the 19th century saw two opium wars provoked by the insolvency of the British Empire, which could no longer pay for goods in silver?
We should take into account the fact that after the Opium War in 1840, for about 100 years, Western imperialism and the Western powers brought severe suffering and great destruction to the Chinese people, which made the Chinese people's heart suffer and which we have firmly remembered. But in the face of modern Western civilization, China, after careful consideration and comparison, concluded that "backwardness will be defeated." We suffered setbacks and were bullied by foreign powers, we wondered why we were backward.
The reason for this underdevelopment is the lack of modernisation, and we believe that to change this fate, we must take the path of modernisation. Modernisation originated in the West. Therefore, in this process (realization of modernization), we must seriously study the methods and content of modernization. But we cannot do it the way you are doing it. After a period of groping, we are convinced that we must take the path of Chinese-style modernisation, which is based on the characteristics of the five-thousand-year-old Chinese civilisation. It is a symbol of rationality, not of blind imitation of others, nor of conservative and resolute rejection of modernisation. Blind imitation and resolute rejection are both wrong; both are extremes.
What should we do? We will learn from you, but at the same time do it our own way. They say that he who wears the shoe knows whether the shoe fits or not. In this process, we have begun to continuously explore the possibilities and have embarked on the path of Chinese-style modernisation, the path of socialism with Chinese characteristics. In other words, this means that modernisation can be done in the way of capitalism, so we will think about whether it can be done in other ways. Later on we found out that modernisation can also be achieved in a socialist way. Socialism was more suitable for China, so we built modernisation in a socialist way.
Modernisation in a socialist way also includes many ways of modernisation. The socialist approach includes the Soviet Union's approach and our own approach. Later, after exploring the possibilities and learning, we found a way not only to stick to socialism but also to carry out modernisation in accordance with China's own characteristics. We call it socialism with Chinese characteristics. In other words, we have created a path of Chinese-style modernization, and at the same time we have also created a new form of human civilization. From this point of view, our attitude towards the West is actually not simple. We look at the pain caused by this difficult past experience dialectically and historically. We must remember such history and such pain, and we cannot forget the shame of the past, but we also cannot stop at the pain itself and forget what caused it.
We need to reflect and promote the transformation of civilisation from ancient to modern times and embark on the path of modernisation. We can learn from some aspects of the Western path of modernisation, but we cannot simply do everything the same way as Western countries, instead we should go our own way. So this is our understanding of the West in the context of its development of modernisation. Our attitude is dialectical rather than singular.
It is no secret that the United States has been advancing its interests through force for centuries. This was also the case with the invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan and one of the European countries, the former Yugoslavia. We have the issue of Taiwan, where tensions are also being maintained by the presence of US aircraft carriers in the South China Sea, joined by the French. How did the conflict in Taiwan arise and why is the US so interested in Taiwan?
The Chinese nation has gone through hardships along the way, and the Taiwan question was caused by the occupation of Japan during the invasion of China by the Western powers. The Japanese occupation of Taiwan is the historical cause of the current Taiwan problem. After World War II, Taiwan was returned to China. Later, because of the civil war between the Kuomintang and the Communist Party of China, the Kuomintang oppressed the people and failed to win the hearts of the people, so it eventually lost the war and withdrew to Taiwan. At that time, the United States supported the Kuomintang during the civil war between the Kuomintang and the then Communist Party, so after the Kuomintang withdrew to Taiwan, the United States continued to support the Kuomintang, and that is a history that continues to this day. On the basis that certain forces in Taiwan want to do something unpleasant and the United States wants to use Taiwan to achieve certain goals, there is a problem.
On behalf of China, on behalf of the government of the People's Republic of China on the mainland (mainland China), we hope that this problem of the non-unification of Taiwan and this situation can be resolved. First of all, we proposed "one country, two systems," which refers to Taiwan. As Chinese people, we hope that we can talk about things, because there are many different opinions, we can discuss them and resolve them. However, due to repeated opposition from foreign forces, including some people on the island, this issue has not yet been properly resolved. However, the issue of the reunification of the motherland has become a core interest of China, and China will definitely stick to this core interest. But how will the Taiwan question be resolved in the end? Of course, we hope to resolve it peacefully, but we will never promise to give up the use of force for reunification, because there are still many foreign forces intervening in the Taiwan Strait area and too many unstable factors.
The question of unification of the homeland must be resolved. The United States, as well as some other Western countries that are secretly calculating in a corner, are focusing on the Taiwan issue for historical and practical reasons, but I think that this is not good. As for the Taiwan issue, we should look at it from the perspective of historical trends, support the resolution of the Taiwan issue and promote China's national reunification. This is a very simple and realistic substantive process.
On the issue of human rights, there is often talk of an extraordinary level of monitoring, control and a social credit system. How are these types of control applied in practice and how did they come about?
When I hear that question, I find it very funny. When people come to mainland China and look at it, they will see that the so-called human rights issue is a claim that the West has made up for unknown reasons. If you think about it, it is a very simple question. In the 75 years since China's founding, and in more than 40 years of reform and opening up to the world, China's development has been so rapid that if we have to rely on this kind of social supervision and control, where will the vitality of the people come from? Very simply, if not in a state of freedom, how can vitality be created? It is a matter of interpreting this problem from a holistic perspective.
Secondly, looking at this issue from a realistic perspective and combining it with theory, as a Chinese who is over 50 years old this year, I have never felt the situation of being so-called surveilled that some people in the West mention. My own life, the lives of the people around me, my relatives, who is under surveillance? Who is subjected to this so-called domination? We often see that some mental patients in China may feel this way. So I don't know if they identify some mental patients in China as a real problem. When I hear such questions, I think of some of the mental patients around me and their psychological feelings and experiences. I don't know if the person who said these words has heard the reactions of these mental patients or if he himself already has mental problems. So it is very important that we return to rationality. I have just said that the characteristic of China, that is, rationality, is very important.
Third, if we use our brains, we know that China has 1.4 billion people, how much would it cost to control and monitor such a huge population? It wouldn't even be enough to invest all the fiscal revenue, so it's not possible. When it comes to issues such as human rights, if you come to China and look at the situation there, you will see that these are just lies. So I think that all of you who are journalists here and have the opportunity to go to China, to understand China and to look there, should do so. You have to expose these lies, otherwise these slanders about human rights would be a great insult to the Chinese people, not just to the Chinese Government. Should we take enforcement action against those who break the law? Of course we must take centralised enforcement measures, which is a basic requirement of a modern state. How can we allow bad people to do what they want?
What is a people's democratic dictatorship? Democracy must be established for the people and dictatorship must be established for the enemy. The enemies I have mentioned here are very few in number. They are those criminals who destroy society and bring suffering to the people, and also those who break the law and discipline. For them we have a dictatorship in place. This principle is the same always and in all countries. This is the rational achievement that humanity has created together. But people should not exaggerate it too much, otherwise it will appear as an irrational narrative and fail to be viewed objectively. That is why I think this problem should be split into two aspects. Of course, if some people have ulterior motives and insist on talking like this, then I have no choice. We can never wake up someone who is pretending to be asleep.
The one-child policy has not proved to be appropriate, has it not burdened China with a large number of older generation and great pressure on the population curve and the economy due to the strain on the pension system?
I do research in the field of political science and we know that the process of formulating national policies must be based on decisions made in the light of objective conditions at the time. When we started to adopt the one-child policy at that time, we based it on the overall economic development of China at that time, that is, the population base was large and the overall economic development was relatively weak, and under those circumstances we took appropriate policy measures. Therefore, any policy needs to be formulated in the light of the specific historical conditions and to find out why it was formulated at that time.
Personally, I think that the phenomenon of declining birth rates and ageing that you have just mentioned cannot be attributed solely to the so-called Planned Parenthood policy. Think about it, there is no family planning policy in Western Europe, is there? South Korea also does not have a Planned Parenthood policy. Does Japan have a Planned Parenthood policy? However, the phenomenon of low fertility and aging is now common, so there may be some connection between the two, but the bigger reason is the corresponding trend and regularity that exists in the process of modernization. So we have to divide this into two statements. The first proposition states that every policy is a solution to a problem in the particular conditions of the time, so everything cannot be blamed on a particular policy. The second statement says that the phenomenon of declining birth rates and ageing have a very significant negative impact that the process of modernisation and development can bring with it, and it is happening everywhere in the world.
Let's talk more about the problems of the pension system that you have already mentioned. Pensions have brought a certain financial burden to every country and the solution to this problem can be divided into two aspects. The first aspect is that, when a person is old but has contributed to the system in the past, it is natural that society will provide some benefits to help them provide for their old age. This is natural and reasonable in the eyes of the Chinese. We are also getting older, so (the pension system) is also a manifestation of social progress. How to deal with the financial burden that pensions bring? The Chinese approach is to keep striving for quality development and to solve this problem in the process of development.
While we can say that the development of quality through increased productivity can be followed by the ability to coordinate resources to solve a range of problems in society, the development of AI will equally bring worries and concerns about the unemployed population. So there are two sides to every problem, and we need to see not only the progress of society, but also recognise that the means to solve these problems are also increasing. Our human society has gone through millennia, is it not in the process of solving one problem after another that our rationality and the level of our civilization increases? Therefore, I want to look at this question dialectically so that we can solve this problem well.
China is today at the top of the economic development and with 5.5 % GDP is the most successful country in the world. How do you see the future and sustainability of this development?
In the 75 years since the founding of the People's Republic of China, especially since its reform and opening up to the world in 1978, China's economic development has been sustained and attracted global attention. For example, our economic aggregate has reached the second place in the world. In such a development process, thanks to the development path of Chinese-style modernization and our insistence on reform and opening up to the world, internal reform has brought enthusiasm and vitality, and opening up to the outside world has allowed us to learn something new from the world's technology and experience. At the same time, we have also contributed to the world division of labor and achieved a win-win situation for all parties. The Chinese are very hardworking. At the same time, our population is large. We work together and our rational characteristics are fully utilized.
Furthermore, human society as a whole has reached an important point, that is, the dividends of industrial civilisation have been largely divided, and the digital technological revolution that is now winning the day and the development of the various cutting-edge technologies that this revolution is leading to are having an all-encompassing impact on productivity. Some people say that this is the third industrial revolution and some people say that this is the fourth industrial revolution, but whatever it is called, a phenomenon like this, led by digital technology and high-technology, which is having a major impact on productivity, is what we call a new quality of productivity. Once the new quality of productivity emerges, all aspects will be significantly affected.
Therefore, China has made an important decision at the 20th National Congress of the Communist Party of China to comprehensively promote the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation through Chinese-style modernization while pushing forward the building of a socialist modern country. In this process, quality development is very important from an economic point of view. In the process of quality development, we must pay attention to the role of scientific and technological innovation and cultivate new productive forces. This is not just China's problem, the whole world is in the process of this great change. At the heart of the matter is the question of whether we can work together instead of restricting each other's development. This would unleash new productive forces for the benefit of all humanity.
Now that China has reached second place in the world economic aggregate, it must also develop new domestic manufacturing forces. The second aspect is to mobilise the power of the world through the Belt and Road Initiative and through 'talking together, building together and sharing together' for the benefit of all mankind. In the case of China, as I have just said, we must promote the development of the overall economy through high-quality development and the development of new productive forces. This is another step that China is comprehensively planning and promoting. This July, the Communist Party of China will convene the Third Plenary Session of the 20th Central Committee of the Communist Party of China to discuss how to better cultivate the new productive forces, how to further deepen reform comprehensively, and how to further promote the development of Chinese-style modernization.
I suggest that if you are interested, you can follow up the meeting in two months. China will take more comprehensive and detailed measures at that time.
About the future or the next generation
There is a trend in Europe, and indeed throughout the world, that the new generation of young people lacks motivation for many things. At the same time, we see that the new generation is very much influenced by individualism and utilitarianism. There is also a great deal of emphasis on issues related to gender and the LGBT community. What can we do about this? We also see that in some Western education systems, young people tend to be utilitarian, individualistic and self-centred. At the same time, mobile phones provide people with a huge amount of fragmented information. Sometimes people are also immersed in this fragmented information. What do you think is the difference between young people in the East and the West? And what can we do for the youth and what should the youth do for themselves?
Two days ago, China Youth Magazine published my article on this topic, which concerns the generation of new quality production forces and the development of Chinese youth. In this article, I hold a basic view, or rather a basic value judgment, namely that I believe that people of a certain age must have full confidence in the youth. This basic judgment is something we cannot afford to lack. If you think about it, older people also told us in our youth that our younger generation is limited. This is because young people are still developing, their cerebral cortex is not yet mature and is also in the process of development. This causes them to sometimes become addicted to mobile phones and sometimes act impulsively. These seem to be psychological problems, but they are actually about integration, adaptation and the development of the brain and mind during the development process. But their passion, impulsiveness and sensitivity are something we adults do not have. We must therefore trust young people fully. That is our basic position and attitude.
But let's go on and look at it two ways. For example, with the advent of new productive forces and the advent of digital technologies, on the one hand, people are addicted to mobile phones, but young people are naturally gifted at using mobile phones and digital technologies. It is said in our youth academic circles that this generation of young people are the natives of the digital age. So the mistakes they are making that we are uncomfortable with are actually rooted in the human heart. When we were young, we were also addicted to things, only the means of addiction was different. If the environment is well channeled, young people do not become addicted, so we have to see the positives. Their adaptability to digital technology and new innovations means that young people will be a major pioneering force in the development of new productive forces. In many technology areas, there is a trend towards younger and younger leaders. The Chat GPT team is a case in point. The average age of the team is only between 20 and 30 years old. This is the first aspect.
Secondly, we cannot blame these teenagers directly for their problems, but we adults. Because of what the education system, society and the environment in which children grow up promote, we need to reflect on what we have done for the next generation and what legitimate things we have taught them. Some of us adults continue to spread discord and lies, which has a bad impact on the international environment. I do not think this is good in any way. If some of the wrong things are passed on to the next generation, obviously there will be huge problems in their upbringing. When it comes to educating the next generation, we should teach them what is accepted around the world, but we should also teach them in our own way, according to different countries, societies and cultures, and reasonably set appropriate standards. In this process, we adults should set an example ourselves.
In China, for example, they advocate that young people respect traditional Chinese culture, especially the concepts of "harmony," "respect for elders and love for children," the concept of family, etc. Next time, I will write an article that mainly discusses the logic of families in modern Chinese civilization in order to promote the building of a socialist family with Chinese characteristics. For example, it is necessary to naturally promote and integrate some cultural elements promoted by the Communist Party of China and many moral concepts that have been formed in Chinese society under normal modern conditions. I think that with the joint efforts of the whole society, the next generation will definitely be better and better, so we need not be too pessimistic.
The world is beginning to change very significantly from a bipolar world and especially from a world where the US and its dollar with its military bases are exercising the notion of hegemon. Today, there is talk of multipolarity, of the BRICS group, of the Shanghai Trade Cooperation, where energy and raw material commodities are already traded in national currencies such as the yuan, the rial, the ruble, etc. Where will this development lead?
The second issue is that world harmony actually requires that we unite all countries for common development. But at the same time, countries around the world have their own cultures and environments. So how will Chinese norms need to be adjusted during this process? In what way and how will China help these countries in doing so?
I understand the issue of using multiple currencies in world trade from several perspectives. First of all, however, I must make it clear that I am not an expert in economics or finance; I am concerned with Chinese political issues. But from my simplest understanding, from the understanding of a political scientist, what is the use of money, what is the use of currency? It's a means of payment in the process of trading goods. Therefore, the question of which currency becomes the universally accepted and used currency in the transaction process is a matter that has its own economic laws. At one time, the US dollar was a very important currency for world payments. But why did countries then trade in other currencies? I think for this reason, the United States may have to think about this on its own. I'm not an expert on money and finance, but people still have to conduct business, and since the US dollar is not working well, they will be more likely to use the currency that is working well. I think that since the world is neither unipolar nor bipolar, but multipolar, there will be a corresponding diversification in the use of currencies during the transaction process. Of course, I also hope that some countries will not use their currency as a political weapon. If they insist on doing so, they will not achieve any good results.
Speaking of interests abroad, what do relations with Europe mean for China, specifically with the countries of Central and Eastern Europe, where Hungary and Serbia have become countries with stronger relations with Beijing? What does this closeness consist of?
If you are familiar with Slovakia, what do you see as the most important prospects for the development of Slovak-Chinese relations?
I believe that China's relations with countries around the world are guided by the basic principles of mutual benefit and common development. That is why China is willing to carry out projects on which it can work together with other countries. For example, in the Belt and Road project that China is promoting, we have a very important principle, which is 'joint discussion, joint construction and joint sharing'. We emphasise mutual and open cooperation. If there are always factors in this process that undermine cooperation and if there are always disputes within the community, economic development will suffer. We should therefore be empathetic, deepen mutual trust and understanding, and nurture our friendships and achievements. As for the cooperation mechanism between China and Central and Eastern Europe, we have been working on it for over ten years, since 2012.
As far as Central and Eastern Europe is concerned, not only in terms of political cooperation, but also in terms of economics, trade, investment, people-to-people and cultural exchanges, our cooperation has undergone enormous changes. Take the example of freight trains between China and Europe. In 2011, there were only 17 of them. In recent years, the number has increased to 57 000. Many investments and deals have grown exponentially. This undoubtedly shows that if we work together steadily, we can achieve joint construction. As I said, the construction of the Belt and Road advocated by China is to achieve better cooperation through 'joint discussions, joint construction and joint sharing'. Under the guidance of this concept, we will surely reap rich successes. I am not an expert on the subject of international relations, but I think that, if both sides are sincere, they can certainly achieve mutual benefits and win-win results, they can develop, but they must not cause conflicts between them.
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