PRAGUE - 19 December (Aktuálně.cz) "I did not come to the Defence Ministry to be afraid, but to finally modernise the army," Czech Defence Minister Jana Černochová (ODS) told Aktuálně.cz in an interview. Although the army is buying new equipment worth tens of billions, it faces another challenge - who will use it when soldiers leave. In the interview, she also says what will happen in Ukraine with the arrival of Donald Trump or what problems there are in deals with Israel.
Her era at the head of the ministry has been a difficult one. On the one hand, for the first time in nineteen years, the government is spending two percent of GDP on defence, as the Czech Republic committed to when it joined NATO, but at the same time Europe is in the midst of the biggest war since the Second World War. The army is therefore undergoing massive modernisation. It is ordering F-35 aircraft from the United States and CV90 infantry fighting vehicles from Sweden. On the other hand, the army is ageing, many experienced soldiers are leaving and new ones are hard to find. Even so, Defence Minister Jana Černochová admits that the budget of around CZK 160 billion will not be enough. "There will be pressures on the Czech Republic," Says Jana Cernochová in an interview for Aktuálně.cz.
The politician also comments on the dispute with Chief of the General Staff Karel Řehka. "I wouldn't call it a conflict. I would call it the fact that some things the Chief of General Staff doesn't seem to realize, unfortunately. That the secretary is not only the one who negotiates funding for the benefit of the department, but that as the head of civilian control, he has a right to know about all the things that are going on in the department." explains Jana Cernochová. "I will do everything I can to ensure that any media 'fights' between the civilian and military parts play no role whatsoever in what we do here. I'm certainly not going to give up," Adds Jana Cernochová.
You have been in charge of the Ministry of Defence for exactly three years. What is the most memorable moment in that time?
Definitely the beginning of the war in Ukraine. We had a controversy about this with then-President Miloš Zeman, who did not believe until the last moment that such a thing would happen. When it happened, a huge stone fell from my heart that in those early days he clearly sided with our government, which was helping Ukraine, he did not criticise us for helping, and he himself said in several interviews that he was very disappointed with Putin and that this could not go unanswered.
Another moment was acquisitions - as I said when I joined, I did not come to the Ministry of Defence afraid. I came to work and finally modernise the army.
This year, defence is expected to manage two per cent of GDP for the first time in 19 years. Why couldn't we do it sooner?
Despite the fact that there was an economic crisis and an energy crisis was looming, we banged the table and said: defence can no longer be the department it has always been.
Unfortunately, the biggest mistake in this respect took place under Minister Stropnický (he headed the ministry from 2014 to 2017 - ed.). It was a booming economy, but with him I sometimes felt he was afraid. He was afraid to make decisions, he was afraid to sign, he didn't want to get into conflict with people who he would then have to explain - probably on the street, as I do - why we want to have two percent of GDP.
It has long been said that two percent is rather a minimum. Why aren't you bolder in your budget plans?
At the moment, the atmosphere in the Chamber of Deputies was not up to it, it was often about emotions and something I did not want to stir up even more. Now I assume that at the meetings that I, the Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister and other ministers will be attending after the New Year, there will be pressure on the Czech Republic. And it cannot be ruled out that something like this will not happen in the course of the next year. We really cannot avoid it.
The elections - and the end of your current term as head of the ministry - are only a few months away. Do you still have any big contracts in the pipeline?
I'm sure there will be the usual purchases like equipment for soldiers or various ammunition. We are also waiting for a decision on when and in what numbers we will conclude a contract for the purchase of Leopard 2A8 tanks. Above all, we need to ensure that the modern equipment we have bought will be able to be driven and flown. We are going to have a huge reconstruction of our fixed infrastructure following the acquisition of the F-35.
Nevertheless, less money is to be spent on investments next year and the year after than now...
This is perfectly normal, because now the increase in investment is enormous. But we have to balance that with having a real infrastructure, so that the aircraft, tanks or infantry fighting vehicles have a place to park. So that it does not stand, to put it popularly, somewhere on the street or in inadequate conditions. Similarly, the Chief of the General Staff has repeatedly pointed out that we need to be resupplied even for the new equipment, so ammunition will be bought. And these are all non-capital items.
However, by basing defence budget planning on macroeconomic forecasts, which are changing, there is a decline in planned budgets. How can this be dealt with?
We have all learned from this and are testing it for the first year. Next time we have to plan budgets, ideally we should plan for 2.3 per cent, then the fluctuations would be hidden in that. And if the forecast was different, we could do, say, 2.5 per cent, which I don't think anybody would mind, but more importantly we wouldn't get below 2 per cent.
Trump knows that a strong Russia is not in the interest of the US
In February it will be three years since the start of the Russian war in Ukraine. How has the Czech Republic's defence capability increased in that time?
We have new Leopard 2A4 tanks that we got from Germany. Air defence or protection against drones is also a huge topic, so I have asked the Chief of the General Staff to make military recommendations on this. So that we have something ready when we need more funding. And maybe we will actually decide to buy big systems like the American Patriot or the Israeli Iron Dome.
Already the first months of the war have shown how important it is to have full stores. How is the Czech army with supplies?
As we were discussing a moment ago, we have less money to invest now because we need to fill our warehouses. So, yes, we're realizing that there and we're filling up. We are trying to stand in those long queues with the manufacturers and we are very happy that we have a number of companies in the Czech Republic that are capable of producing ammunition and supplying it to Ukraine and the Czech state.
How will the war in Ukraine change once Donald Trump enters the White House?
I don't think even his closest colleagues in the incoming administration have any idea at this point what tactics he has devised. He will try to negotiate early on after he comes in. And I haven't seen any strong statement yet that U.S. aid to Ukraine will be cut off.
This keeps me hopeful that Donald Trump is well aware that a strong Russia is not in the interests of the United States, though of course he will say: "Europe, we've been helping you for decades, solve your own problems, we can help you do that, but it can't be at the expense of United States taxpayers' money."
Competition would delay aircraft delivery for years
You have recently signed the purchase of two Brazilian Embraer aircraft, the first of which is due in the Czech Republic next December. But then there is the contract for the Caesar howitzers, which even more than three years after the contract was signed the military cannot touch because they still have not received a prototype. Does this seem normal to you given the current situation?
It doesn't seem normal to me. It's always about the way the rules are set up to begin with. Here we have mutual trust with the Brazilian side because they have been negotiating the sale of these aircraft since 2010. I think that our negotiations and the involvement of the Czech industry worked.
As for the howitzers, I'm sorry. It has to be dealt with by our acquisition section at practically every meeting. We'll hope the negotiations can be resolved to the benefit of the cause. Frankly - we as a Ministry of Defence are not at all interested in who the subcontractor is. We have the contracts and we will enforce them against those with whom we have them.
Regarding the purchase of transport aircraft, was open competition an option?
If we were competing for a transport plane, we might see one in 2030. The main reason was to speed up delivery. Unfortunately, I can't disclose the breakdown of that price, but we have other things in there that we won't have to buy additionally.
When I compare this to the purchase of American Bell H-1 helicopters by my predecessor (Lubomír Metnar in December 2019 - ed.), they were practically bought bare. And now we have to spend a lot of money to buy what is needed. The price of the Embraer is a real bargain compared to if we were to do it the salami method, that we buy just an aircraft now and then years later buy something that the military can use God knows when.
However, you only assessed the price of the aircraft internally, you do not have an external expert opinion.
The law requires us to have an expert assessment and this has been followed to the letter. So in that respect, we have done exactly as we should have done.
Looking at the ground equipment, what is the service contract for the new CV90 heavy combat vehicles?
Tracked vehicles have already started production. Production of the hull has started, with two vehicles for the combat version and one for the command version. As far as servicing is concerned, we are currently still considering the procurement method. No decision has been made yet.
Do you prefer that this billion-dollar contract be awarded to state repair shops or to private armourers?
I'm going to get a recommendation from my colleagues on this one. My wish is that it should be as uncomplicated and as transparent as possible.
This has not been the case with the delayed deliveries of Israeli MADR radars, several of which remain inoperable.
There we are negotiating a contractual penalty of CZK 65 million. I have now written a letter to the new Israeli Minister of Defence. The Israeli side has asked us for a meeting, which will take place in January in Prague. I really do not believe that the Middle East crisis will have a major impact on deliveries.
As for the other Israeli product that was bought, the Spyder missile system, what's going on there?
There have been some partial delays in some sub-deliveries and some are ahead of schedule, so most of the components for the first and second units are already in the Czech Republic. We are not concerned that there will be any delays.
Should the Czech Republic continue to buy defence technology from Israel after this experience?
Unless there is the same military material of the same quality somewhere else in the world, I have to say yes. Because if we want to keep the high standards and the cutting edge of technology, we have no choice. On the other hand, we should pay more attention to some of the possible sanctions, because the Czech Republic is a strong supporter of Israel and we could hope a little bit that we will get better treatment than others.
The Chief doesn't have the responsibility, the Minister does.
When you look at the current state of personnel of the Czech army, what do you see?
A major goal for the last year at the Department of Defense is to get recruiting moving. We have all the prerequisites for that. We will have an open law on professional soldiers, which will give us a number of options in their favour in the form of benefits or recruitment allowances.
The army is aging, the departures are increasing. What is the military doing wrong?
It is a society-wide problem that the demographic development in our country is not quite ideal. We are competing for people with other security forces and with municipal police forces, where they offer, for example, a quarter of a million recruitment allowance. There are a lot of soldiers who are already entitled to a pension and, seeing the 250 000, leave the armed forces to join the municipal police.
We have to do everything we can to keep them. I like the proposal that 60-year-olds will be able to decide whether they still want to serve or not. Why should someone who is running marathons at sixty-three not be able to serve in the active reserve if they are physically and medically able to do so?
Why does it seem that the communication between you and Chief of General Staff Karel Rehka is not working? For example, at the last Defence Committee he gently shouted at you not to speak when he had the floor.
There were questions about the drones and they were very polite, they were not aggressive on the part of the MPs. The Chief's response was that he felt that someone had written to the Member. So I just told him half-loudly that I thought it was unnecessary to comment like that. Everybody who was sitting there and heard it thought it was completely unnecessary on the part of the Chief of Staff. He has no business commenting to the members.
So what is going on between the ministry and the army?
I would remind you of the Competence Act. The hierarchical relationship of superiority and subordination is expressed quite clearly here. The Army of the Czech Republic is under the control of the Ministry of Defence. The Minister of Defence has the final say, also in the management of the army. This is a quotation of the law, I am not making it up.
As Defence Minister, I have to make sure that civilian proceedings take place here, that things do not happen that the Ministry of Defence does not know about, or that soldiers become politicians by making similar statements. There is still a misunderstanding here that it is not the Chief of the General Staff who heads the Ministry of Defence, but the Minister.
How do you personally perceive the dispute?
I wouldn't call it a conflict. I would call it the fact that there are some things that the Chief of Staff unfortunately doesn't seem to realize. That the minister is not only the one who negotiates funding for the benefit of the department, but that as the head of civilian control, he has a right to know about all the things that are going on in the department.
And not only does he have the right, the minister has the responsibility. The Chief of the General Staff has no responsibility. Some of the matters arising out of our legislation, unfortunately, are being interpreted by the military, led by the Chief of the General Staff, differently than they are written and than they were intended by the legislators many years ago.
So you're prepared to go into a jurisdictional dispute with the Chief of Staff?
I don't want to argue with the chief. No one can dispute the interpretation. It's not the interpretation of Black, it's the interpretation of constitutional lawyers. I will do everything I can to ensure that any media "fights" between the civilian and military parts play no role whatsoever in what we are doing here. I'm certainly not going to give up. That I would accept having any "conflicts". That's not conflicts, that's simply defining yourself against some of the things that the Minister has a right to do.
(Author: Ondřej Stratilík)
The interview was published on Aktuálně.cz.
Jana Cernochová Minister for Defence
Member of the Czech Republic
defence expert
ods.cz / gnews.cz-jav
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